Mission:
-) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
-) 150 hp should be enough
-) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
-) stol not required, faster cruise preferred

Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
TIA,

jan olieslagers wrote:
> Mission:
> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
> -) 150 hp should be enough
> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>
> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
> TIA,


BD-4, RV-10 ?

cavelamb schreef:
> jan olieslagers wrote:
>> Mission:
>> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
>> -) 150 hp should be enough
>> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
>> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>>
>> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
>> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
>> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
>> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
>> TIA,
>
>
> BD-4, RV-10 ?

Thank you Richard, the BD4 had escaped my eagle's eye and does seem to
fit the mission. As for the RV10, does it really have folding wings?
KA

jan olieslagers wrote:
> cavelamb schreef:
>> jan olieslagers wrote:
>>> Mission:
>>> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
>>> -) 150 hp should be enough
>>> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
>>> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>>>
>>> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
>>> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
>>> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
>>> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
>>> TIA,
>>
>>
>> BD-4, RV-10 ?
>
> Thank you Richard, the BD4 had escaped my eagle's eye and does seem to
> fit the mission. As for the RV10, does it really have folding wings?
> KA

No, I think ya got me on that one...

"jan olieslagers" > wrote in message
...
> Mission:
> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
> -) 150 hp should be enough
> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>
> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their stol-capability
> but I want a (moderate) tourer.
> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
> TIA,

I don't know of anything that will fit your goals; but I hope that you meant
1100-1400KG. Otherwise, I am confitent that nothing will fit.

Peter

jan olieslagers > wrote:
> Mission:
> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross

I assume you really meant 1100 to 1400 lbs useful load? I don't see how you
can fit 4 people, any baggage or realistic fuel in something with an empty
weight of well under 400 to 700 lbs!

> -) 150 hp should be enough
> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred

Pretty demanding competing requirements.

> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
> TIA,

"jan olieslagers" > wrote in message
...
> Mission:
> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
> -) 150 hp should be enough
> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>
> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
> TIA,

4 place with a gross of 1100 to 1400 lbs? 700 lbs for 4 on board plus
fuel plus airframe. A Cessna-150 has a gross of 1300-1500 lbs. Your
requirements point more to a C-172 with a gross of 2300-2500 lbs. Yes,
I know experimental aircraft are built with lighter airframes; but 1000
lbs lighter?

--
But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be
restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever.
John Adams, letter to Abigail Adams, July 17, 1775

Anyolmouse

On Aug 12, 9:29*am, jan olieslagers >
wrote:
> Mission:
> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
> -) 150 hp should be enough
> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>
> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
> TIA,


Dyke Delta

On Aug 12, 12:29*pm, jan olieslagers >
wrote:
> Mission:
> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
> -) 150 hp should be enough
> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>

You've almost described the Dyke Delta. The four seats are really 3
real people. 150hp will get you flying, but you'll be happier with
180hp. And you'll have closer to 900lbs of useful load.

On Aug 12, 12:29*pm, jan olieslagers >
wrote:
> Mission:
> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
> -) 150 hp should be enough
> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>

Dyke Delta info:

http://ernest.isa-geek.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyke_Delta

Peter Dohm wrote:
> "jan olieslagers" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Mission:
>> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
>> -) 150 hp should be enough
>> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
>> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>>
>> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
>> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their stol-capability
>> but I want a (moderate) tourer.
>> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
>> TIA,
>
> I don't know of anything that will fit your goals; but I hope that you meant
> 1100-1400KG. Otherwise, I am confitent that nothing will fit.
>
> Peter
>
>
I was thinking 1100-1400 USEFUL load. at 1400 pounds GROSS, the
airplane would have to weigh under about 500 pounds....

How bout the glastar sportsman 2+2. It'd be pretty wimpy with only
150hp though.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:29:30 +0000, jan olieslagers
> wrote:

>Mission:
>-) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
>-) 150 hp should be enough
>-) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
>-) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>
>Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
>but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
>stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
>Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
>TIA,

jan olieslagers wrote:
> cavelamb schreef:
>> jan olieslagers wrote:
>>> Mission:
>>> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
>>> -) 150 hp should be enough
>>> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
>>> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>>>
>>> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
>>> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
>>> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
>>> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
>>> TIA,
>>
>>
>> BD-4, RV-10 ?
>
> Thank you Richard, the BD4 had escaped my eagle's eye and does seem to
> fit the mission. As for the RV10, does it really have folding wings?
> KA


If I remember, the wings plug into a tubular center section on the BD-4
Does that count as folding? It was a Summer long ago in LA, that I
walked into a book store, for goodness sake, and walked out with a book
of plans for the BD-4. I took it down off the shelf - and there were
details of a folder..... 160 mph cruise at 75% 150 HP it says here....
4 seater = 2000 lb

Way more practical than the -5?

Brian W

"brian whatcott" > wrote in message
...
> jan olieslagers wrote:
>> cavelamb schreef:
>>> jan olieslagers wrote:
>>>> Mission:
>>>> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
>>>> -) 150 hp should be enough
>>>> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
>>>> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>>>>
>>>> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
>>>> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
>>>> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
>>>> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
>>>> TIA,
>>>
>>>
>>> BD-4, RV-10 ?
>>
>> Thank you Richard, the BD4 had escaped my eagle's eye and does seem to
>> fit the mission. As for the RV10, does it really have folding wings?
>> KA
>
>
> If I remember, the wings plug into a tubular center section on the BD-4
> Does that count as folding? It was a Summer long ago in LA, that I
> walked into a book store, for goodness sake, and walked out with a book of
> plans for the BD-4. I took it down off the shelf - and there were
> details of a folder..... 160 mph cruise at 75% 150 HP it says here....
> 4 seater = 2000 lb
>
> Way more practical than the -5?
>
> Brian W

It is indeed more practical than a BD-5, but less versatile that a Cessna
172. From all I ever heard, although fast, it was a very marginal four
seater. The most memorable comment that I personally heard from a BD-4
owner was: "It will spin--DON'T!"

Peter

jan olieslagers > wrote:

> Mission:
> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
> -) 150 hp should be enough
> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>
> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
> TIA,

Mustang II ? It doesn't quite make the useful load, but it has the folding
wing option, and is a fast cruiser.

http://www.mustangaero.com

Mike

Mike Adams > wrote:

> jan olieslagers > wrote:
>
>> Mission:
>> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
>> -) 150 hp should be enough
>> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
>> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>>
>> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
>> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
>> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
>> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
>> TIA,
>
> Mustang II ? It doesn't quite make the useful load, but it has the
> folding wing option, and is a fast cruiser.
>
> http://www.mustangaero.com
>
> Mike
>

Oops, now I notice you're looking for 4 seats also, so maybe this won't
work.

Mike Adams wrote:
> jan olieslagers > wrote:
>
>> Mission:
>> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
>> -) 150 hp should be enough
>> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
>> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>>
>> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
>> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
>> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
>> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
>> TIA,
>
> Mustang II ? It doesn't quite make the useful load, but it has the folding
> wing option, and is a fast cruiser.
>
> http://www.mustangaero.com
>
> Mike
But only 2 seats...

Mike Adams wrote:
> Mike Adams > wrote:
>
>> jan olieslagers > wrote:
>>
>>> Mission:
>>> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
>>> -) 150 hp should be enough
>>> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
>>> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>>>
>>> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
>>> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
>>> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
>>> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
>>> TIA,
>> Mustang II ? It doesn't quite make the useful load, but it has the
>> folding wing option, and is a fast cruiser.
>>
>> http://www.mustangaero.com
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
> Oops, now I notice you're looking for 4 seats also, so maybe this won't
> work.
>
Or build it like the F-82 twin mustang ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-82_Twin_Mustang

Scott > wrote:

>>> Mustang II ? It doesn't quite make the useful load, but it has the
>>> folding wing option, and is a fast cruiser.
>>>
>>> http://www.mustangaero.com
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>
>> Oops, now I notice you're looking for 4 seats also, so maybe this won't
>> work.
>>
> Or build it like the F-82 twin mustang ;)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-82_Twin_Mustang
>
>

That would require a WIDE trailer!

Most four seaters will have a hard time getting off the ground
decently with 150 hp. When you said four seats and folding wings the
Me 108 "Taifun" came to mind. But you'll probably have to draw your
own plans if you want to build one.

Oliver

jan olieslagers schreef:
> Mission:
> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
> -) 150 hp should be enough
> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>
> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
> TIA,

OK, of course my original message was not precise enough.

-) No I don't really want the 4 seats, I want a tourer for 2 persons and
a lot but then really a lot of luggage.
-) Yes I did mean gross weight but of course I meant kgs not lbs.
-) rought estimate of weights:
2 people=180 kg, luggage 200kg, fuel 100kg, some 900 lbs total payload
-) wings need not fold, "easily removable" is enough. The real keyword
is "trailerable" because hangar space is very rare over here.

Thanks to all who responded so far. The BD4 looked good at a first
glance, I will certainly consider the Delta Dyke and Mustang also.

KA

jan olieslagers > wrote:
> -) No I don't really want the 4 seats, I want a tourer for 2 persons and
> a lot but then really a lot of luggage.
> -) Yes I did mean gross weight but of course I meant kgs not lbs.
> -) rought estimate of weights:
> 2 people=180 kg, luggage 200kg, fuel 100kg, some 900 lbs total payload
> -) wings need not fold, "easily removable" is enough. The real keyword
> is "trailerable" because hangar space is very rare over here.

Maybe the Kitfox Super Sport with non-LSA variant optional gear (800 lbs
useful load)? Appears to comes pretty close:

http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/s7supersport.htm
http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/s7ssspecs.htm

Folding wings:
http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/images/Misc%20pics/Wingfoldpic.gif

In a previous article, jan olieslagers > said:
>-) No I don't really want the 4 seats, I want a tourer for 2 persons and
>a lot but then really a lot of luggage.
>-) Yes I did mean gross weight but of course I meant kgs not lbs.
>-) rought estimate of weights:
>2 people=180 kg, luggage 200kg, fuel 100kg, some 900 lbs total payload
>-) wings need not fold, "easily removable" is enough. The real keyword
>is "trailerable" because hangar space is very rare over here.

How about the Glasair Sportsman 2+2?
http://www.glasairaviation.com/kitcontentsportsman.html
The specifications page lists "with wings folded/tail removed".



--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
As convenient as it is for information to come to us, libraries do have a
valuable side effect: they force all of the smart people to come together in
one place where they can interact with one another. -- Neal Stephenson

Paul Tomblin schreef:
> In a previous article, jan olieslagers > said:
>> -) No I don't really want the 4 seats, I want a tourer for 2 persons and
>> a lot but then really a lot of luggage.
>> -) Yes I did mean gross weight but of course I meant kgs not lbs.
>> -) rought estimate of weights:
>> 2 people=180 kg, luggage 200kg, fuel 100kg, some 900 lbs total payload
>> -) wings need not fold, "easily removable" is enough. The real keyword
>> is "trailerable" because hangar space is very rare over here.
>
> How about the Glasair Sportsman 2+2?
> http://www.glasairaviation.com/kitcontentsportsman.html
> The specifications page lists "with wings folded/tail removed".

A good try Paul, thanks! And that "cavernous luggage area" is exactly
what I want, especially if it allows weight as well as volume.

Two objections though:
-) the spec & performance lists 180 HP as a minimum
-) the kit seems prohibitively expensive, that kind of money will buy me
a very nice 2nd hand. 50 grand, add an engine to that and a prop and
instruments and avionics, and last but not least transatlantic shipping,
way beyond budget!

"jan olieslagers" > wrote in message ...
> jan olieslagers schreef:
>> Mission:
>> -) four-seater, 1100-1400 lbs gross
>> -) 150 hp should be enough
>> -) folding wings/trailerable absolutely required
>> -) stol not required, faster cruise preferred
>>
>> Already considered RV10, Murphy Rebel, CH801
>> but none mentions folding wings and all are proud of their
>> stol-capability but I want a (moderate) tourer.
>> Plans/kit/factory built all valid options.
>> TIA,
>
> OK, of course my original message was not precise enough.
>
> -) No I don't really want the 4 seats, I want a tourer for 2 persons and
> a lot but then really a lot of luggage.
> -) Yes I did mean gross weight but of course I meant kgs not lbs.
> -) rought estimate of weights:
> 2 people=180 kg, luggage 200kg, fuel 100kg, some 900 lbs total payload
> -) wings need not fold, "easily removable" is enough. The real keyword
> is "trailerable" because hangar space is very rare over here.
>
> Thanks to all who responded so far. The BD4 looked good at a first
> glance, I will certainly consider the Delta Dyke and Mustang also.
>
> KA

http://www.bedecorp.com/designs/bd4/intro.htm